Spiritual Forum

Replies

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  Light Being May 29, 2013 at 11:54pm

  Much of this revolves around how one would define pain, which even amongst humans is a highly subjective phenomenon. Extrapolating pain responses even onto other animals can be problematic, there are varying degrees of similarity in the nervous systems of different taxa of animals and it can be hard to judge how these differences translate into the feeling and processing of pain as it would in a human.

  In some ways there is an important psychological element to pain and its overall ability to indicate ‘suffering’ in either human, other animals or indeed plants, etc. Some organisms can be considered to be able to anticipate/fear instances of pain and respond accordingly, much as humans do, whereas other organisms are simply able to produce a response to physical intervention/damage, yet still others are not capable of making any detectable pain response (although there may be observable physiological/endocrine responses which could be monitored, such as in the case of bivalves and similar animals).

  
  In summary, I think I am inclined to say that plants are not capable of feeling pain in a manner that we as animals would understand it. But there is always room in science for the revision of our accepted wisdom, were the evidence to come to light.
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  Light Being May 29, 2013 at 11:49pm

  Plants do have mechanisms to detect and repair damage turn towards the sun, and perhaps also direct root systems towards water and nutrients. Animals can have reflexes and local feedback loops in the nervous system independent of the brain.  However, one could argue that one requires the central nervous system (brain) to perceive pain.

  Then there are the cases of plants using chemical signals when attacked. For example, when caterpillars begin to eat the leaves of corn, the corn releases a chemical signal which attracts wasps. The wasps will then eat the caterpillars. Lima Beans, when attacked by spider mites release a chemical which alters the flavour of the bean, making it less attractive to the spider mite. This chemical is also released into the air to warn surrounding plants of the attack, so they can release this defence system before the spider mite attacks.

  An experiment carried out at Exeter University showed that plants warn each other of impending attack. Three healthy plants were isolated and the leaves of one were cut to simulate an attack of leave eating creature. Not only did this plant begin a chemical reaction to protect itself, but the two undamaged plants, once they had received the signal from the 'attacked' plant began to react to protect themselves against perceived imminent attack.

  The same kinds of similar reactions are present in the case of forest fires, tree warning others, subsequently the surrounding trees even though they may not be directly affected by the actual fire, show a reaction as do the other plants etc.

  Now I'm not sure any of this could be said to suggest that plants actually 'feel pain', but the fact that they react to attack and/or damage seems to suggest that plants are perhaps somewhat more advanced than we think. Plants have been around a couple of thousand million years or so longer than animals. They have protected themselves with modified leaves to form thorns and spikes, sharp edge leaves, chemical toxins and communications. They even bleed to protect damaged parts.
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  pat pharr May 29, 2013 at 11:06pm

  Click on link to see graph (from Dr. Cleve Baxters experiments) results of plant having electrical reaction to the burning of one of it's leaves( picture from David Wilcock's book "The Source Field Investigations")........https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/575725_10100...
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  pat pharr May 29, 2013 at 11:05pm

  More info (scientific) on the consciousness of plant's with David Wilcock from the Project Camelot interview. Wilcock also writes about this in his book "The Source Field Investigations."  Go to 5:22 of the video where he speaks of the Dr. Cleve Baxter experiments.......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwZHdGB3a40
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  Michael May 29, 2013 at 9:58pm

  nice topic......................
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  faith May 29, 2013 at 8:00pm

  The book that came out in 1973 I believe, "the Secret World of Plants", by Peter Thompkins and Christopher Bird, scientifically documented imagery and thoughts passing between subjects . . . Which indicated an ability for humans and plants, who share the Divine Frequency, to take advantage of this truth/ inate ability through awareness and focus! Quite an eye (mind)opener!
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    Dreamsicle > faith May 29, 2013 at 8:12pm

    "scientifically documented imagery and thoughts passing between subjects"

    I don't think that's completely accurate.
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      Dreamsicle > Dreamsicle May 29, 2013 at 8:35pm

      What did they conclude the plants were thinking?
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        faith > Dreamsicle May 29, 2013 at 9:54pm

        Just two of the experiments that I recall . . .
        Were: when a plant was connected up to electrodes and queried regarding their needs, imagery was transmitted to represent certain minerals. Another experiment involved hooking up a certain plant to electrodes and thinking thoughts of a destructive nature about the plant. . . And another included destroying the plant right next to the electrode connected plant and in both cases the plant registered a violent response to both experiments. The human subjects who participated with the experiments all tested highly psychic or telepathic. . . . In order to be chosen to be a receiver or transmitter. The experiments speak for themselves. If you are actually interested and not just feeling the need to play the devils advocate . . . I suggest,you study this extensive work for yourself : ) It's an Excellent
        "Mind Opener".
        Be Peace
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          Dreamsicle > faith May 29, 2013 at 10:21pm

          :P I'm not trying to argue.

           

          It certainly sounds interesting. But what sticks out to me is the year the book was published.

           

          So what I'm interested to find out is the name of the equipment used. The name of the people involved. And if they videotaped it. And if that video is available free to the public. Because for all we know, the humans involved are what influenced the responses. I mean... someone thinking about killing something else (like destroying the plant) could very well be what caused the "equipment" to register a violent response. So the human could've caused the responses, and not the plant itself. In the name of science it's very important to know these details. I'll see what I can dig up since this is very relevant to this topic. Because what was said in the OP about shamans having plants "speak to them" is much like a blank canvas or block of stone "speaking" to an artist and you can't really prove the plant is actually saying anything (it very well could all be in the "shaman's" head). It's trickier when it comes to plants for medicinal use because you might accidently kill someone in the process if it's actually a trial and error process (which I bet would be kept hidden from the data or conveniently left out of the story/researchers awareness) but it's basically the same thing (as an artist and his blank canvas, or when a whittler carves a piece of wood).

           

          And if it's actually possible (going back to the book, "The Secret Life of Plants"), they should be able to repeat the experiments. Yeah?

          Off to digest. Be back later with my opinion ;)