Free will.

No...lol...Meg...I am saying that i did not use any free will to smoke or not to smoke. I mean free will can in my opinion only be used if you are free and aware. Otherwise it is just something you use without anny understanding and any real use to your real awareness, and the results of these choises are of no relevance to your real being. For they are a make believe free will manufactured by your Ego, that makes you believe you actually are using free will. I have ever sinds i am a kid a problem with this. If one uses the real aware free will one would not expect to be in a negative spiral. Let me see if i can explain while understanding myself...lol..sometimes language does not give me the right sound on things. I have seen that in order to learn there is no need for negative input. At the contrary childeren learn faster in a cared and loved environment than kids like me who were teached by getting hit every day. So if i really use free will and am aware of it, why would i choose to uset he negative side of learning when i verry wel know it goes better and faster in a positive way? So for me there is a clintch in this free will movement that i sure do not get. Also in regard of my 3 NDE's i have no feeling i was alowed to use this si called free will to do what i want to do. This brings me to another level of thinking, wich is the problem of re-incarnation. If it is so that we do re-incarnate and we are fully aware of it (wich i asume we are not at this point) I would think we would use the free will more often and live life in a more intense way because it seems there is no death. Now i do no not jump of a building because i am not shure what will happen because i am not fully aware yet and therefore this can not be called free will actions. Mutch of this thinking i use comes forth from A Course in Miracles, so you have (some) reference on my way of thinking.

Well damn. I thought this was going to be something of a question of "does free will really exist?".

I have that problem. No joke; I have serious emotional problems over it. If someone brings up anything (or if I see anything) that even in the slightest way could have to do with free will vs. determinism, I get started, and it's painful...almost physically. I wrote a blog post (my only one as of yet, actually) regarding the subject. It probably seems a bit rambly, but it hopefully gets my viewpoint across.

Basically, I'm in a constant state of arguing with myself over whether free will exists, or if it's just an illusion generated by the mind. Is the brain merely a deterministic machine (as most psychologists and neuroscientists would have you believe), or is there more to it?

The thing that gets to me is that everything, and I mean EVERYTHING about human experience has a logic to it. I feel like it's something that could be expressed in a C program. Seriously, I think that those AI researchers may eventually have something going for them that is going to be a fully human-like intelligence, including a (perceived) spirit/soul and "free will".

But if you've created a "being" that appears to exercise "free will" from a machine, then haven't you basically reduced human thought and emotion (and yes, even spirit) to a cold, hard, deterministic set of equations?

This depresses me to no end....if choice is an illusion, then why do we bother hoping for the future if it's already been laid out for us? If what I've stated above is true (that humans are deterministic animals, and free will is an illusion), then no matter what we might WANT in our lives, there's no guarantee that we can make it happen, simply because every future event has already been predetermined. Even if you THINK you're making the choices, the "you" is an illusion (no, I'm not talking about ego, I'm talking about EVERYTHING), and so therefore there are no "decisions being made" by "you", there is only matter behaving in a perfectly predetermined manner.

The idea of that being the truth erases all hope and meaning of anything for me...we're just a bunch of atoms and electrical impulses behaving in a 100% deterministic way, nothing more.....no "spirit"........no "free will".............................*cries in corner*

If only I could express with text how ridiculously depressed I am while writing this, I would...it kills me a little more inside each day.

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Replies

Cedric July 28, 2010 at 7:34pm

I remmember but that just made my day...this makes ...i will have to get back to you on that one when i find the correct word.
Cedric July 28, 2010 at 7:26pm

You might have a point there Meg. i did never finish the course, and i do realize the course is only a trigger and will be absolete once i get the point of it. I also realise that my Ego ( this is something i was aware of when i went into this quest) is getting stronger and smarter this is why my threads become longer and more complicated...lol. Now with my Ego getting stronger i have a problem hearing the other voice for the Ego seems to know the same info the voice has, it is just the tonality and vibration that is diff. I must say Meg, for the first time sinds i have been on this site, you have actually touched me...good going. And thanks...for now...i think i heard a faint voice say...I'l be back...NOTE: i said faint voice...:))
Cedric July 28, 2010 at 3:22pm

No...lol...Meg...I am saying that i did not use any free will to smoke or not to smoke. I mean free will can in my opinion only be used if you are free and aware. Otherwise it is just something you use without anny understanding and any real use to your real awareness, and the results of these choises are of no relevance to your real being. For they are a make believe free will manufactured by your Ego, that makes you believe you actually are using free will. I have ever sinds i am a kid a problem with this. If one uses the real aware free will one would not expect to be in a negative spiral. Let me see if i can explain while understanding myself...lol..sometimes language does not give me the right sound on things. I have seen that in order to learn there is no need for negative input. At the contrary childeren learn faster in a cared and loved environment than kids like me who were teached by getting hit every day. So if i really use free will and am aware of it, why would i choose to uset he negative side of learning when i verry wel know it goes better and faster in a positive way? So for me there is a clintch in this free will movement that i sure do not get. Also in regard of my 3 NDE's i have no feeling i was alowed to use this si called free will to do what i want to do. This brings me to another level of thinking, wich is the problem of re-incarnation. If it is so that we do re-incarnate and we are fully aware of it (wich i asume we are not at this point) I would think we would use the free will more often and live life in a more intense way because it seems there is no death. Now i do no not jump of a building because i am not shure what will happen because i am not fully aware yet and therefore this can not be called free will actions. Mutch of this thinking i use comes forth from A Course in Miracles, so you have (some) reference on my way of thinking.
Tristan July 28, 2010 at 8:02am

Well damn. I thought this was going to be something of a question of "does free will really exist?".

I have that problem. No joke; I have serious emotional problems over it. If someone brings up anything (or if I see anything) that even in the slightest way could have to do with free will vs. determinism, I get started, and it's painful...almost physically. I wrote a blog post (my only one as of yet, actually) regarding the subject. It probably seems a bit rambly, but it hopefully gets my viewpoint across.

Basically, I'm in a constant state of arguing with myself over whether free will exists, or if it's just an illusion generated by the mind. Is the brain merely a deterministic machine (as most psychologists and neuroscientists would have you believe), or is there more to it?

The thing that gets to me is that everything, and I mean EVERYTHING about human experience has a logic to it. I feel like it's something that could be expressed in a C program. Seriously, I think that those AI researchers may eventually have something going for them that is going to be a fully human-like intelligence, including a (perceived) spirit/soul and "free will".

But if you've created a "being" that appears to exercise "free will" from a machine, then haven't you basically reduced human thought and emotion (and yes, even spirit) to a cold, hard, deterministic set of equations?

This depresses me to no end....if choice is an illusion, then why do we bother hoping for the future if it's already been laid out for us? If what I've stated above is true (that humans are deterministic animals, and free will is an illusion), then no matter what we might WANT in our lives, there's no guarantee that we can make it happen, simply because every future event has already been predetermined. Even if you THINK you're making the choices, the "you" is an illusion (no, I'm not talking about ego, I'm talking about EVERYTHING), and so therefore there are no "decisions being made" by "you", there is only matter behaving in a perfectly predetermined manner.

The idea of that being the truth erases all hope and meaning of anything for me...we're just a bunch of atoms and electrical impulses behaving in a 100% deterministic way, nothing more.....no "spirit"........no "free will".............................*cries in corner*

If only I could express with text how ridiculously depressed I am while writing this, I would...it kills me a little more inside each day.
This reply was deleted.
- Cedric July 28, 2010 at 6:26am
  
  How can we say somebody does things out of free will if this person is not aware of who he really is. And by really i mean REALLY to the bottom past the Ego, past conditioning and everything else. I mention this because of my own life, and all my conditioned respons habbits that i used to call my decisions based on my free will. What free will? If everything you do is mimicking what others have thought you. After a while you believe al these things are from you and come from you and then you proudly state that you let's say smoke cigarrets out of your own free will when al of a sudden you become aware this is just something you learned from someone else. I have been looking everywhere in my life and in my past where i have done something out of my own genuin free will...there is nothing there...untill my awakening. Now i can say that things i do, i do them aware and in free will with full responsability for the outcome. And even now i sometimes fall on my face by doing something without free will.
- Vagelis4VP July 28, 2010 at 12:26am
  
  if u can afford it...everyone's free will depends on his purchasing power.... ;)
  - This reply was deleted.
    - Vagelis4VP July 28, 2010 at 1:20am
      
      ..lol....yup...
Cedric July 27, 2010 at 10:21pm

I think there comes the Awareness in play. I think it is at least for me verry hard to turn around and step out of awareness and all that comes with it. I would say inocense is bliss before i say ignorance is bliss, when we are kids we are not ignorant we are inocent. this inocense gives us free will i think. And once we step into puberty and the grown up world we lose inocense and free will. why we do that is still a mystery to me.
3rfl3nfqndi4s July 27, 2010 at 6:47pm

There ya' go, kel. I now feel that my first responsibility is to nourish my Soul, be a shining Light, and if someone is ready to hear, will they not ask a question? For example, I have a friend at a supermarket where I shop frequently, and he said to me one day....."You're always smiling." This was very uplifting and encouraging to me, for when I go out I do my best to shine that internal Light. Of course, I do it at home as well, but, it's so much easier to do in a peaceful atmosphere than it is on the streets.

I had the exact experience you did, kel. When I first started seeing the lies and deceptions that surrounded us, I was so very angry and frustrated I could hardly stand it. Mainly, because the only reason I would ever lie to anyone would be to protect myself or another. To me, those who lie are cowards. And, don't buy into the "I don't want to hurt their feelings". If you're afraid to be honest with another, it's because you are afraid of being disliked. Hurt feelings are purely ego. Who we Truly are cannot be hurt.
3rfl3nfqndi4s July 27, 2010 at 6:29pm

Sadly, there are those who still believe in an angry, wrathful, punishing God, who know nothing of free will. It's an inherent knowledge, but, some are not aware of their knowing. It has not come into consciousness yet.

There are those who are less evolved who are not ready for the responsibility of free will and that's okay. Everyone grows and evolves at their own pace and rate.

If we share our knowingness with others and they are not ready for them, we are doing them more harm than good, for when one hears a Truth, they are then responsible for and to that Truth. So, I'm becoming more and more cautious what I say and to whom I say it. "First do no harm."