This blog is about Abuse. I have been researching narcissism and thought I would post a blog about the subject. I have ommitted certain small examples to make room for relevant videos, however the full article may be obtained in the following link.
https://www.bpdcentral.com/narcissistic-disorder/hallmarks-of-npd/
"Ego-maniac traitor
You never did understand
You fell in love with your ego
It did not fit into plan"
from the song "Low Life" by Public Image Ltd.
Narcissism
Narcissistic Traits
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
Requires excessive admiration
Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
Lack of empathy is one of the most striking features of people with narcissistic personality disorder. It's a hallmark of the disorder in the same way that fear of abandonment is in borderline personality disorder.
"Narcissists do not consider the pain they inflict on others; nor do they give any credence to others' perceptions," says Dr. Les Carter. "They simply do not care about thoughts and feelings that conflict with their own." Do not expect them to listen, validate, understand, or support you.”
Note that narcissists can pick up on social cues and can "fake it" when necessary.Aside from looking "normal," the hope is that they will get something back.
This lack of empathy is so foreign to us--even some animals show evidence of empathy--that shocking instances can break through the denial and the hoping that one day we will get our turn. While it may leave us outraged, hurt, and feeling betrayed, it can be an eye-opening incident that we really need to acknowledge the limitations of individuals with NPD. As painful as it can be, though, we no longer feel as confused by the push-pull (or in some cases, just the push).
Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
Grandiosity" means, a sustained, unrealistic sense of being superior—better than other people. It also refers to a sense of uniqueness; the belief that few others have anything in common with oneself and that one can only be understood by a few or very special people. A narcissist says:
I have always believed I was destined to do or be something great. Known, loved, or admired by all--not that I took any steps to ensure that I actually did anything worth mentioning. I hand-pick friends who support my own ideal of myself.
My best friend in high school was another guy who, like me, knew we were better than everyone else. Gods among men. I surrounded myself with woman I knew were attracted to me, even if I wasn't attracted to them, to show how desirable I was.
Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
Narcissistic entitlement is not the same as self-worth; for example, that is, the belief that one is worthy of accomplishments earned through hard work. Instead, the narcissist is like a toddler who never learned he is not the center of the world and becomes enraged when others don't meet his immediate demands.
Some of these narcissists are honest about their dealings with others. They will practically tell you that they have an utter disregard for others. Other narcissists are a bit more subtle about the unwritten guidelines for living with someone who becomes irrationally angry when others don't go along with their demands.
Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
Narcissists lack empathy, feel entitled and above the rules, and see other people as appendages whose sole purpose is to fill them with narcissistic supply. Yet sometimes the narcissist doesn't get everything she needs through more subtle means. She needs to take a more direct approach. They take advantage of others to achieve their own ends.
An exploitative relationship may take many forms. But it generally involves using others without regard for their own feelings and interests. The narcissist doesn't even think about what's best for others. He places no value on open, fair and honest exchanges.
He's too concerned with satiating his own hunger for whatever it is that he needs, be it physical, emotional, financial, whatever. For narcissists with some kind of power, such as religious figures, chief executives, politicians and the like, this is like taking candy from a baby
For example, Mona fell under the spell of Matthew, her psychiatrist. The two became lovers after he shared details about his cold and distant wife and confided how lonely he was. Mona says:
He pursued me, a client, to fulfill his need for love and adoration (I was a willing participant, yet I was so fragile at the time). He needed someone to split the rent of his office, so he went into business with a long term client who needed office space. A client became his vet, a client became his financial planner, a client who led golf trips asked him to come to a premium golf outing at some island.
Fear, obligation, and guilt hook family members into giving as much as they can even when it's clearly against their best interest. Narcissists and people-pleasers/codependents have a way of finding each other. The cycle only stops when the non-disordered partner accepts that things will only change when he or she becomes aware that this is a one way relationship and that they will always be in the giving, not getting, role.
Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
Narcissists must be superior to others in every single way. So when someone else has something they don't have that they want: admiration, status, skills, objects, etc.--the narcissist sees it as a major threat. Like so much else in the narcissistic mind, it is unconscious, discounted and denied, which makes it more treacherous for the object of his envy. Therapist Sandy Hotchkiss says, "To admit to envy would be to acknowledge inferiority, which no good narcissist would ever do."
Requires excessive admiration
Narcissists need admiration all the time. They surround themselves with others who will give them positive reinforcement for their sparkling wit, wonderful personality, and so on and so on. When someone with NPD in your life is in immediate need for admiration, he may have experienced cracks in his superior self-image and need an admiration injection.
Here is how another narcissist describes his need for admiration:
Since I have risen from such adversity, I expect others should look on me with admiration and respect at getting this far from so little. They should be awed at my accomplishments and know the man before them has done things they themselves have never even had the balls to even dream of doing. My kindness should be praised, my wisdom should be sought, and my touch should be craved.
Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Arrogance is another defense mechanism that keeps the narcissist a legend in his own mind, free from the stain of the imperfection of other human beings. Remember, narcissists (and borderlines) split, seeing themselves and others in black and white.
Someone has to be on top, and someone has to be on the bottom. Being judgmental and power hungry staves off the stink of imperfection.
Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
This refers to the narcissist's need to fend off inner emptiness, feel special and in control, and avoid feelings of defectiveness and insignificance. While we all fantasize, the trouble with narcissist fantasy is that the narcissist treads a fine line between what is magical thinking and what is real. As unhealthy as it is for the narcissist, it becomes gaslighting for his family members and contributes to their own confusion, frustration, and magical thinking.
A woman says, "Before my husband went into therapy, he frequently based our plans on fantasy scenarios of sudden wealth (winning the Lotto) rather than on a realistic in-the-here-and-now plan. In terms of our relationship, he had built up a happy-ever-after scenario that had no basis in reality. He had himself so convinced of the happy-ever-after scenario that he wasn't even able to hear me when I expressed the need for the trust/honesty issues between us to be addressed."
The narcissist and his or her partner all get caught up in idealized, obsessive relationship in which "I love you's" are declared more quickly than the time it takes to download "Hello, I Love You," by the Doors on the Internet.
Relationships begin with the terms "white knight," "princess," "fairy tale" and "soulmate." And too often, the tale ends unhappily when the person who was split "white" either becomes split black (often in the case with BPs) or discarded when they start making demands and fresh narcissistic supply comes along. People confuse intensity with intimacy, which takes time, self knowledge, honesty, consideration, and willingness to be vulnerable.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder generally believe that the world revolves around them. This condition is characterized by a lack of ability to empathize with others and a desire to keep the focus on themselves at all times.
Definition
Narcissistic Personality Disorder involves arrogant behavior, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration-all of which must be consistently evident at work and in relationships. People who are narcissistic are frequently described as cocky, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding. Narcissists may concentrate on unlikely personal outcomes (e.g., fame) and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment. Related Personality Disorders: Antisocial, Borderline, Histrionic. Narcissism is a less extreme version of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Narcissism involves cockiness, manipulativeness, selfishness, power motives, and vanity-a love of mirrors. Related personality traits include: Psychopathy, Machiavellianism.
Narcissists tend to have high self-esteem. However, narcissism is not the same thing as self-esteem; people who have high self-esteem are often humble, whereas narcissists rarely are. It was once thought that narcissists have high self-esteem on the surface, but deep down they are insecure. However, the latest evidence indicates that narcissists are actually secure or grandiose at both levels. Onlookers may infer that insecurity is there because narcissists tend to be defensive when their self-esteem is threatened (e.g., being ridiculed); narcissists can be aggressive. The sometimes dangerous lifestyle may more generally reflect sensation-seeking or impulsivity (e.g., risky sex, bold financial decisions).
https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder
Flying Monkeys
This article about "Flying Monkeys" is too long to post in this thread and therefore will have to be posted in another blog, in the meantime, please watch these videos to become familiar with the term "Flying Monkeys" and their relationship to Narcissists.
Replies
"The quality and reliability of Narcissistic Supply are, therefore, of paramount importance. The more the narcissist convinces himself that his sources are perfect, grand, comprehensive, authoritative, omniscient, omnipotent, beautiful, powerful, rich, brilliant, and so on -- the better he feels. The narcissist has to idealise his Supply Sources in order to highly value the supply that he derives from them. This leads to over-valuation. The narcissist forms a fantastic picture of his sources of Narcissistic Supply.
The fall is inevitable. Disillusionment and disappointment set in. The slightest criticism, disagreement, or differences of opinion are interpreted by the narcissist as an all out assault against the foundations of his existence. The previous appraisal is sharply reversed: the same people are judged stupid who were previously deemed to possess genius, for instance.
This is the devaluation part of the cycle and it is very painful to both the narcissist and the devalued (for very different reasons, of course). The narcissist mourns the loss of a promising "investment opportunity" (Source of Narcissistic Supply). The "investment opportunity" mourns the loss of the narcissist."
From the book "Malignant Self-love: Narcissism Revisited" by Sam Vaknin
Happily Never After:
Decoding Narcissistic Devaluation and Deceptive Abuse
Are you familiar with the parable of the boiling frog? The premise asserts that a frog submerged in boiling water will instinctively leap out, but if placed in tepid water that is gradually heated, the frog will be unable to discern the danger, resulting in it being cooked to death.
Metaphorically speaking, this story is cited to remind individuals that they need to be cognizant of gradual change as well as sudden change. Being unaware of, or brushing off, small changes in personalities or relationships that occur over time hinders instinctual wisdom. If one isn’t paying close attention, these changes are often only perceptible when piecing together clues that have occurred for a long period of time. Usually this realization comes very late, often when lives have been altered in extremely negative and damaging ways.
The anecdote of the boiling frog is the perfect depiction of how victims of narcissistic covert abuse don’t recognize that they are being abused until severe damage has been done to them.
For the sake of narrative flow, I’ve written this article about Narcissistic Covert Abuse and the deceptive tactics of the Devaluation Stage from the perspective of the female. Of course, males also can be victims of narcissistic abuse and this parable can serve as a cautionary tale to them as well.
Before I describe the deceptive tactics of the Devaluation stage, let’s start from the very beginning: I’m sure you are familiar with the fairy tale where the girl kisses the frog and turns him into a prince, right?
THE TWISTED TRUTH
Once a upon a time, before you met the narcissist, you had probably kissed more than your fair share of frogs. Finally, akin to a romantic fairy tale, you met your Prince Charming. In reality, this is a happily-never-after fairytale that is as twisted as a narcissist’s rendition of the truth.
In the beginning, known as the Idealization Stage in a narcissistic abusive relationship, showered with attention and flattery, you believe that you’ve found your ideal partner. Prince Charming will be sure to utilize every trick in his toolbox to blind you to the control and manipulation that he is about to assert over you.
He will use flattery and you’ll bask in his constant attention. There will be promises of ever-lasting and eternal love. You’ll be declared his “soulmate” and told that he’s never met anyone as perfect for him as you.
Public declarations of his love will be constant. He will claim to share the same dreams, aspirations and viewpoints as you. Progressing at a whirlwind pace, soon you’ll be making plans to move in together and considering marriage, children; the entire modern-day fairy tale.
Filled with surging love and breathless from the rapid pace of the relationship, scarcely a moment is available to think rationally. Caution will be thrown to the wind because he seems so perfect and you feel as though you have a deeper connection with him than anyone you had ever met before, or could ever meet again.
Unbeknownst to you during the magical Idealization Stage is that he has said and done all the same things with all of his former “soul mates.” With every new victim, his predatory skills were sharpened and he became craftier at luring his targets to the metaphorical stove with the giant pot of water.
The public declarations on social media that you were the love of his life and your reciprocal loving comments were merely calculated maneuvers to ensure that you could be perceived a liar or just plain foolish if you contradict the narrative that he’s been weaving.
When your Prince starts to reveal his true self, no one would construe that you are speaking the truth if you speak negatively about him following those grand, affectionate public displays; probably not even yourself.
He’s convinced everyone you know, along with your help, how perfectly wonderful he is. Like an astute chef, he tenderized, marinated and basted you in idealization, priming you for the devaluation to come as he slowly began to warm the water.
Assured that you’d fallen in love with him, the Devaluation Phase begins. Despite his constant affection, in reality he had been preparing you for devaluation and emotional deprivation from the moment you met. Dishing out doses of devaluation slowly, careful consideration was placed on how you’d react. When you felt the temperature rising and sensed the instinctual urge to leap out of the pot, he quickly stirred in just enough crumbs of the Idealization Stage to keep you captive and confused.
THE NEED FOR CONTROL AND PRESERVATION OF THE FALSE SELF
Narcissists are all about control. Everything they do stems from a need to control others. Without someone to control, the narcissist feels empty, unworthy and void of self-esteem. He requires supply the same way humans require oxygen to survive. His partner’s role is to sustain the narcissist’s self-inflated view of himself and meet his need to feel superior.
There is no such thing as reciprocity or love in a narcissistic relationship. The more control his partner relinquishes, the more loved and superior the narcissist feels. This is why narcissists detest boundaries and will take extreme measures to trample any and all boundaries you try to erect. To a narcissist, boundaries are blockades to control and barriers to supply. When his supply is cut off, the narcissist feels as though his life is in peril.
WHY NARCISSISTS ARE DRIVEN TO DEVALUE
The narcissist views his partner as an extension of himself, except his partner is an inanimate object, not a living creature in his eyes. The narcissist needs his partner to provide a regular flow of supply to feel worthy, superior and good about himself. The slightest disagreement, criticism or difference of opinion is perceived as an assault on the existence of a narcissist. Differences of opinion are viewed as an outright attack on the false persona he has carefully created.
Any suggestion, belief or opinion that contradicts his false-self is not tolerable and the narcissist will do anything to defend it his points of view and demonize yours. His manufactured false image is dependent upon his partner to sustain. He’s driven to devalue his partner because he despises his dependence on her as much as he is dependent on her. Devaluing his partner is the only way to disavow the unwanted dependent feelings while maintaining his sense of superiority and control.
HAPPILY NEVER AFTER
Back to the fairy tale of the prince and the frog. Your relationship with your Prince has progressed into a steady rhythm. As time passed, you may have noticed that his attentiveness had waned a little, or perhaps his desire to impress you decreased. You wrote it off as a normal transitionary stage that all relationships go through.
ALERT: Remember the cautions that are exemplified in the tale of the boiling frog. Even gradual change can harken disastrous ramifications.
Since you were purposely blinded by your narcissist, you didn’t pay heed the subtle but very drastic deviations in your prince’s behavior. The temperature in the pot got a little warmer, but overall you felt pretty good and continued to wander along the path of your fairytale. Gradually, more dramatic changes in your Prince’s behavior will begin to manifest, completely contradicting the personality of the person that you fell in love with.
Slowly, he will begin to subtly and covertly devalue you. Where you once could do no wrong, fault will be found. The devaluation may take various forms, including nit-picking, gas-lighting, withholding physical intimacy, blaming you for everything, needing to always be “right,” projecting his feelings on to you, playing the victim, triangulation, constant criticisms of minor and trivial things disguised in form of just “trying to be helpful” and domineering behaviors that started small in the beginning, but eventually permeated until every aspect of your life is under his control.
You may start to notice cockiness and arrogance in his statements, where he was once modest. He may start saying things like, “I am better at my job than all my co-workers” or “I am just good at everything I do.” Though a bit taken back at first, you still believe your Prince is wonderful, and that a little bragging here and there isn’t so bad.
Soon he will start to direct his grandiosity toward you. Since he is always right, he always has a better way to do things. If you don’t agree, his anger flares and you find yourself subjected to various forms of abuse. You and your prince begin to argue over the most trivial things. A key narrative in these arguments is that you have failed to meet his expectations of a loving and nurturing relationship.
He started to expect you to read his mind. He told you that if you really loved him, you would be more tuned into his needs. If you try to get him to see your point of view and your needs, you’ll be assured that everything could go back to the way it was in the beginning, “if only you would…(insert a demand here).”
As you sense the heat continuing to rise, he recognizes that you are becoming irritated and are contemplating jumping out of the pot of water. He will always quickly add a dash of little reminders of the Idealization Stage. Assuring you of his ever-lasting love, he again becomes more attentive. He will stir in a bit of “future faking” with promises of marriage and a happily ever after.
Watching the achievement of an excellent actor, you will be moved by the performance of your narcissist as he swears with tears in his eyes that he can’t wait to grow old with you and make a future with you. You become convinced that he is all you could ever need. You decide to stay in the pot, as his WORDS soothed you and calmed your doubts. If you pay attention, you’ll notice that his actions only fuel the voice in your head hinting that something is amiss.
Desperately wanting everything to go back to the way it was in the beginning, you will attempt everything in your power to please your prince. You’ll put things in places where he believes they belong. You’ll change your habits, because he insisted his ways were better.
It will became easier not to have long circular arguments over what appear to be the most minor issues. For instance, if he liked the dishes organized a certain way, it was really not all that important to you, so you just acquiesced and relinquished more and more control.
Your energy will become sapped as you work harder and harder to try to meet his incessant need for nurturing and attention, even though you’ve been providing the same amount that you did in the beginning and it once satisfied him. Despite your faithful attempts to keep him happy, for reasons that you cannot understand, what you have to offer is no longer enough.
The more you give, the less he gives in return. If you confront him about the lack of reciprocity in the relationship, he will resort to gas-lighting and outright deny the truth, despite copious amounts of evidence to the contrary. He will shift the blame back to you and his behavior will somehow be your fault.
You start to feel like nothing you do or say is ever good enough. You knew you had not changed since the two of you met, yet he started to find fault in you at a rapid and unrelenting pace. Soon you will be uncomfortable and uncertain of yourself in nearly every aspect of your life.
You become so focused on your prince and his wants and needs, you start to lose yourself and your identity. Your needs take a backseat to his. No matter how hard you try to get him to see your viewpoint, it is always a vain attempt. Since you aren’t viewed as important, a narcissist will never believe that your opinions or beliefs should be considered. To consider another persons feelings, that person must believe that other individuals are worthy of consideration. That will never happen in your relationship with a narcissist; he is the only person that matters to himself.
The temperature having risen so hot that it nearly paralyzes you, you are rendered too lethargic and depressed to leap out of the pot. You sure as hell contemplated it, but find that all of your energy has simply been drained. You begin to drown in your own confusion and despair.
Just in the nick of time, your prince gallops in, rescuing you as he pulls your head above the water. While holding you in one arm, he carefully stirs in more specks of the Idealization Stage with the other, adding just enough to keep you afloat and extract more supply.
Despite giving your Prince more of you than you had given to anyone in the past, he accuses you of being selfish and not loving enough. He would never admit, nor consider, fault. He would never agree to compromise. In the same breath that breathes your demise, he will proclaim his love for you and desire to make the relationship work. His actions will never change, no matter how convincing his words sound.
He held you to very high expectations of love and nurturing, but didn’t hold himself to the same high standards. His hypocrisy becomes glaringly apparent. No matter your continual efforts, nothing will seem to satisfy him anymore, on any front. You went from being his soulmate and the best partner he had ever met to someone who couldn’t even perform the most mundane of tasks like draining spaghetti or filling up the dog’s bowls with water the correct way.
Your self-esteem eroding, you will begin to feel emotionally depleted. You will be stunned to find one day that you barely recognize yourself. Even worse, you will begin to lose respect for yourself.
You’ve been nearly boiled to death. To add insult to injury, you were blamed for it too.
THE OUTCOME IS INEVITABLE
The narcissist is no prince. He is a parasite; a vampire; a soulless creature that masquerades as your Prince Charming.
Even if you muster the energy to attempt to challenge the chaos and duplicity that he has brought into your life, it only accelerates the end of the relationship. A narcissist has no use for anyone he can’t control, and since he never valued you, he thinks nothing of tossing you aside as he begins to search for his next victim.
He is a slave to his need for supply and must devalue the very thing that he needs to exist, or be forced to confront his feelings of inferiority, dependence and self-loathing. Confronting those feelings requires a level of self-awareness and empathy that a narcissist could never possess.
There is nothing you could have done to change the ending of this story. The outcome was inevitable. A parasite is a parasite, no matter how much love you give it. It’s time for you to consider the wisdom of another parable by Ilse Lehiste: “No matter how much you feed the wolf, he keeps looking at the forest.” You will never be able to offer him anything that can quench his insatiable desire for the unattainable.
You were targeted because you are emotionally generous, forgiving and compassionate. These are qualities that the narcissist never possessed, despite his uncanny ability to feign those characteristics. Those aspects of your personality are incredibly important to the narcissist because they know that they can prey upon them, using your own goodness against you as they continue to bleed you emotionally, financially, spiritually and physically.
The ending of this happily never after fairytale was written before the story ever began. Don’t second-guess yourself or wonder what you could have done differently. Close the book and never re-read it. There are so many other books with worthwhile stories and better endings.
Just be sure that once you’ve set the book of your narcissist aside that you recall the tale of the boiling frog that was found on the pages and take heed of gradual change in the future.
Copyright © 2015 Bree Bonchay. All Rights Reserved.
http://relationshipedia.me/category/narcissism-3/stages-of-a-narcis...
I know what he looks like his voice his name and much more as he knows all about me. But is all private so yes and we talk daily a couple of times a day. So what are you trying to get at.....
didn’t want to do this but what the … lol … the blog is about narcissist - ;)) well at least I can express my self to a t … rather than just go with the ‘general observation … this was posted in march of/2015 and we are not even in September yet … http://www.ashtarcommandcrew.net/forum/topics/a-tribute-to-kelly-li... and it’s still open and not removed … I would say it is sad … So lisa you would have to forgive others for trying to rap around you two … when this circulates on ACC ... but time is the best doctor … I heard … ;))… PEAce
Actually March of 2012 I've read this before dear friend..... He did not say twin flame I don't go for that twin flame stuff anyway... So was not just posted this March it was posted three years ago.... I'm not worried about ex girlfriends or what not.... Is it that people want me to tell him to pound salt so he and Kelly can work it out???? Well I love you all but not going to happen....people don't need to wrap around us just let us be about it. Next time maybe you can get your dates right.... BTW drekx said he wouldn't want her back anyway.... He's over her and moved on....
so lisa did you get the second part as well 'forgive others' - or is it too much for you to care? Do you care what other people feel? or is this post is all about YOU? 'it is me ... it is i ' ... so you hurting Kel right now saying that he doesn't want her back like she is some thing so 'repulsive like a trash' and you are so great?you are the one? Do you care how she feels?
you know Good for you ... guess time will tell ... i've already stated my position for you two and i am not going to repeat myself like a parrot.
I do care but does anyone care that people I thought were my friends are ripping my heart out.... I came along in drekx life months after she ended it with him.... No Kelly is a good person but she and drekx are over has been for a while I'm sure she feels the same about him its over and she dont want that relationship back either.... But as forgiveness I don't need too as I've done so before I came on this plane of existence I'm of love not hate but it doesn't make things hurt any less as this human flesh is weak and feels pain.... But in my soul we are all one connected I love you and all and forgive..... Now it must end
Its quiet obvious to me that drekx is now with lisa! why can these people not accept the proof! I cannot understand this! This drekx and lisa"s life not yours! mind your own business! QUIT PROJECTING YOUR DOUBTS ON THEM! THE PAST IS GONE! THIS IS THE PRESENT!
Look only Drekx and Lisa know how they feel about each other. You guys claim to be the experts, based on the past. I really don't know why they even try to explain things to you. Your minds are already set anyway! Will you even believe them when they are together in real life? They don't need your freaking doubts!
Well put, dear brother....Yes, you have said it well....And nobody will convince me and Lisa to split up, ever......Our relationship is none of their business...They have no authority over us...All they have are wagging tongues, with malicious minds attached...that is all...Has ACC become a church full of old women, who gossip, plot and scheme...???
Hmmmmmmm...!! One wonders, sometimes...
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