Spiritual Forum

Replies

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  Roaring Lovely July 31, 2015 at 6:08pm

  Winger, lets discuss this illusion thing in my blog post; real vs illusion. Lets talk here of immensity of space and interstellar travel.
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  Roaring Lovely July 31, 2015 at 5:20pm

  The thing guitar do appear separate and solid. There is an underlieing reality as to why it appears so. I can't imagine how I can play a guitar if it could not appear separate from my body. My fingures would be glued to the guitar and motion would be impossible. As a far as a continuous entity that is of the same essence as a guitar is concerned, then yes, the guitar exist seperate from my fingures. This isn't illusion, its real!
  
  SOLIDITY
  
  We donnot yet have an answer to the question of 'collapse of wavefunction'. Therefore we donnot yet understand what we are perceiving it as solid. If wavefunction is real and classic world is quantum decoherent without the collaps of wavefunction, then solidity is real in this sense. There is an underlieing reality behind what we perceive as SOLID. Actualy photons bounces of the particles appearing from the 'void'. Perharps the emptiness itself is only illusory.
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  Roaring Lovely July 31, 2015 at 2:25pm

  Winger,
  Exactly! The parts of clock are not necesarily working coherently but several clocks ticking syncronously are coherent in that sence. In music, several frequencies that are rythymic to each other are said to be harmonic. Singing at the same frequency is not necesarily coherence. There is another crucial factor; phase angle;-) vibrations that are not from the same source are not necesarily coherent even if they are of the same frequency. Yes, synchronised dancing is a truely coherent system. Synchronised swimming is coherent in some way but coherence is a term more applicable to vibrating things or PERIODIC things. I mean there is no QUANTUM COHERENCE in the classic world. Though you may dance together in coherence, the atoms that forms your body themselves are not all vibrating coherently.
  
  When you say nothing ever appear the way it is, it is problematic cause appearing the way it is would be a term that has no meaning. Some things better apear the way they are. Not everything is a mirage. When I say 'guitar', there is something specific in my mind that I wanna express and it appears the way it is! Same applies when I say 'space' and 'time'. If it doesn't apear the way 'it' is, what would this latter 'it' mean? When I talk of space, is my experience invalid?? Why should another man's be the valid one? No way! It is the person invorking a word who tells us what 'it' is that he want us to grasp. We hold our experiences of 'it' for a moment.
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    Feather Winger > Roaring Lovely July 31, 2015 at 4:57pm

    Nothing is the way it appears has to do with the way that things appear solid and separate and also the way that we project our fears and beliefs on  to the world ...not seeing the deeper or further causes and connections of what happens.  Things is the wrong word for the illusion includes events and causes and conditions coming together as well as the way concepts appear solid...  The illusion is in the mind due to preconceptions and superficial thinking and lack of knowledge as well as due to our limited senses.  One big illusion is that we don´t see the Divinity of other people and the world....we see things as ordinary......there are a gazillion illusions..
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  Feather Winger July 31, 2015 at 11:35am

  I think I get the difference between working together and coherence...like a clock,,the parts work together, but are not coherent. Coherency is sync.....is the fact that all the clocks have the same time coherency..not really???  I still have trouble with the music thing.  Is it harmony when it is different frequencies together and coherency when the frequencies are the same????

  One and many  are both real, sure.....everything is real.  When we say that the world is an illusion, we mean that nothing is the way it appears.....it is real, just not the way it appears.,,.

  What is it when we do synchronized dancing or swimming in a group....i´m still working on the subtleties of this...did you say no coherence in the physical world...ok i will think about this more...
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  Roaring Lovely July 31, 2015 at 10:12am

  As long as you admit that both being many and being one are equaly real, then there arises no logical problem. When we say that a billiard ball is one thing, it is problematic cause they are in reality many things that are bonded together. Every 'one' thing has portions. This thing is 'One', 'two',..., etc are just our mental assignments. Numbers, including the ambiquotos number 1, are ABSTRACTIONS that donnot necesarily have any bearing in reality.
  
  WORKING TOGETHER
  
  Yes, but don't confuce this with coherence. The kind of working together as one that we wish to harness it to get to andromeda is more LITERAL than you may be thinking. As far as pulsating in and out of existence is concerned, the classic object is NOT working together as one. The atoms are working together but as many things. I don't want anyone to trivialise the trip to andromeda!! Specifically don't say that it is just the matter of working together with the universe in a different metaphoric sence of 'togetherness'. Coherence is not simple 'togetherness'. Don't be captivated with the goodness of this term in bringing a sense of unity to the extend that you may feel bad when I say that there is no quantum coherence in classic world. I donnot mean that there is no HARMONY in classic world.
  
  Winger, the other time I had to struggle to help you understand that harmony is not coherence. You kept saying that an ochestra is an example of a coherent system and I told you that it is not! Music systems are highly decoherent. I am feeling that perharps ur still thinking that by coherence, we mean simple 'togetherness'. No, it is togetherness but in a very specific way. There is a technical part that I don't want you to miss as you will miss everything cool about the lesson of harnessing quantum coherence for interstellar travel.
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  Feather Winger July 31, 2015 at 9:14am

  One and many simultaneously.....all interconnected and working together..
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  Roaring Lovely July 31, 2015 at 7:19am

  I don't want to think that distance to andromeda is illusory. Its real! It is only our idea that we are localised only here that is illusory.
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  Roaring Lovely July 31, 2015 at 7:12am

  If I take myself as the whole, I take up everything and make no room for anything else to exist. This is absurd. 'I' is part of the whole, not the whole.
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  Roaring Lovely July 31, 2015 at 7:07am

  As long as you don't say that a case where whatever is in andromeda is 'one' with the say the billiard ball on your table necesarily makes the distance to andromeda illusory, then you are understanding me! Not everything is one, rather everything is OMNIPRESENT. These two terms donnot mean the same thing.