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Physics And The Immortality Of The Soul

Posted by Roaring Lovely on May 17, 2015 at 8:00am
A famous physics writer, Sean Caroll critisizes the idea of soul. He claims that 'soul' is incompartible with known science facts. Even though I don't agree with Sean Caroll, he do raises some good things that the proponents of 'soul' should address. The following are the premises used by Sean Caroll (putting them consisely in my own words).1.)The idea of soul is within the juridiction of scientific speculation.2.)The physics at work in the brain is thoroughly understood.3.)Close exermining the equations governing electrodynamics (the entire physics presumably at work in the brain), we find no terms indicating how the soul should intervein and influence matter.4.)The equations of electrodynamics have been thoroughly confirmed by experiments.5.)Therefore the idea of soul is incompartible with known facts.I agree only with the first premise. It may at first surprise you because many proponents of soul cower behind this wall of 'beyond science'. But then sadly, the concept of soul thus becomes contradictory as the soul should clearly animate the awareness should it be of any significance to us. Such effects to awareness should absolutely affect our bodies! So no more brushing this issue aside. So I summarise it this way:If there is a soul and our science is complete, then the science should clearly show how the soul interacts with matter.The second premise is not correct because in physics, we have only definite answers for a two body problem. When we introduce 3 bodies in the picture, physics encounters unsurmountable problems. The problem was pointed out by the great mathematician: Henri Poincare. Here it goes: there is no such a thing as 'tiny erors' in even a 3 body problem, let alone the gazzilion body problem such as the brain. A flapping butterfly in Japan creates tornadoes in America! The question is; if we cannot ever use the laws we derive in two body to extrapolate and predict the behaviour a 3 body problem, how sure are we that the laws are even correct? A small pertubation that we might be niglecting without noticing it while testing electrodynamics in two body problems is nolonger insignificant in such a huge body problem as a brain. I won't mension the fact that the brain is such a great amplifier of possibly tiny fluctuations in perharps even the quantum field. I won't mention all the problems in Caroll's reasoning. I point only at the glaring ones.The premise 3 is perharps based on the stereotype that a science fact cannot possibly be the soul. In this, even the proponents of soul are guilty! A soul, by definition, is just an entity that can survive the death of the body, priserving the personality. What if there are layers of realms interpenetrating the same space? Then the soul can just be a body in a certain layer that is a copy of all the information of the body in this realm. So the physics of the soul would be just the same as the ordinary physics. It differs only in the realm they are at work in. Caroll, like even some soul proponents, misses the important point of the idea of soul: what is relevant is an entity that retains the personality, whatever causes personality, and not necesarily anything mysterious that should be added to the equations.ARGUMENTS FOR THE EXISTENCE OF A SOULThe idea of 'soul' is not just a mere product of man's fantasy and wishfull thinking. It is a product of a deep and carefull consideration of the origin of our identity and personality. It was found by great philosophers of antiquity who were seeking for a deep understanding of reality. So I present here my own argument.There are two reasons that shakes my faith in the idea of matter as the origin of our identity.1.)We cannot conceptualise a division in our identity. There is not fraction Alice. Either Alice is there fully or fully absent. However, matter is divisible.2.)Matter intrinsically changes with time but our identity remains invariant.The premise number 1 was even acknowledged by the physicist Erwin schrodinger. I elaborate it this way; the fact that matter is divisible creates unsurmountable problem. I can in principle use a part of your brain, combine it with a part of your dog's brain to form the brain of a goat! But we just cannot imagine how the resultant goat will feels its identity as partly you-partly the dog. If it will have an identity, it will be an entirely unique one. Even worse, we just can't accept that swapping a particle in Bob's head with a similar one in Alice's head will result in disapearance of each of the two guy's identities. But a similar process can be done in principle: go on swapping the particles in Bob and Alice's brain one at a time till you interchange their entire brains without interchanging their personalities. So in what sense is it true to say their brains are responsible for their identities?One way round would be to say that the entity responsible in your identity is somehow inherent in every particle in the universe. But this will make you effectively omnipresent in the universe! You will exist in an hollographic way everywhere just sleeping comfortably waiting to awake! This idea is even far more fantastic!Let us take a look at second premise. It might not be that apparent. Let us accept for a moment that your identity is due to the identity of the matter in your brain. Then we encounter yet another unsurmountable problem. I can in principle, change your brain to be like it were when you were a child with the same same brain you had! Will you then 'reincarnate' as a child whose memory of the future is forgoten? Many will shake their heads!! But why? The only explanation is that such a task is impossible even in principle. Indead it must be so because the matter has a clear notion of arrow of time even in very fundamental processes. This fact have recently been discovered in physics. It is called time symmetry violation in electroweak interactions. That is the particles changes iretrivocably with time. However, your identity is the same as you ever were. You sense the changes not as change in you but as 'change in time'
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  • Feather Winger May 20, 2015 at 6:12am

    OK...will do as soon as I find your post on this...

  • Roaring Lovely May 19, 2015 at 8:20pm
    Allright I have brewed it. You can discuss with me. Your welcome. In case a thing isn't clear, you can ask.:)
  • Feather Winger May 18, 2015 at 8:17am

    I was thinking it is a good way to connect quantum physics and spirituality.  You give me the technical aspects in a 1, 2, 3 step simple process of what is necessary for quantum coherence and then we can see how to apply this to the life.

  • Roaring Lovely May 18, 2015 at 6:52am
    Ok, I will write it in the next blog. I am so glad you are interested in quantum coherence. It should be interesting for those seeking to understand the interface between quantum mechanics and classical mechanics.
  • Feather Winger May 17, 2015 at 5:24pm

    Can you write something explaining what is necessary to get quantum coherency according to physics...and we can fine tune it from there and see if they missed anything...Keep it as simple as you can....

  • Roaring Lovely May 17, 2015 at 4:55pm
    Such is what makes me say that discerning the Dirac equation the way Sean Caroll did was a misguide. It is enough to see that the equation represents some unpredictable behaviour of which it does. There is no difference between the math description of giggling electrons and those of buzzing bees or even children playing in the field! Infact so math used in economics, such as stochastics are used in physics! The point is that the inner world completely eludes the science's outside-in way of trying to understand reality.
  • Roaring Lovely May 17, 2015 at 4:54pm
    Such is what makes me say that discerning the Dirac equation the way Sean Caroll did was a misguide. It is enough to see that the equation represents some unpredictable behaviour of which it does. There is no difference between the math description of giggling electrons and those of buzzing bees or even children playing in the field! Infact so math used in economics, such as stochastics are used in physics! The point is that the inner world completely eludes the science's outside-in way of trying to understand reality.
  • Feather Winger May 17, 2015 at 4:38pm

    Science has not found love either,  They may have found a few chemicals in the blood or some happy synapses...but we know that love is more than that.   In fact there are lots of things that todays science cannot measure or understand for they mostly deal with things that are seen, and the majority of this universe is still unseen by us.  What % would you say is unseen by us....I would say about 99%....

  • Roaring Lovely May 17, 2015 at 2:49pm
    So Sean Caroll, investigating the equations of electrodynamics could simply discern the left hand side of Dirac equation, electromagnetic field, as to represent the soul interacting with matter. It was too easy for him to discover! He never explain why we should not think so. He just seems to be guided by the stereotype that if its existence is acknowledged by science, it cannot possibly underpin 'magical thinking' or something like that.

    But even think about it. Do we realy understand the electromagnetic phenomenon? Can we explain how a magnet can pull another magnet, tell north from south in pure mechanistic terms? The philosopher of antiquity who discovered electrostatic force, Thales, would agree with me! He beleived that magnetic like forces had some rundimentaly kinda awareness. He was a panpsychicst (like me)

    What else should we say? The fact that we can describe a phenomenon with an equation, e.g magnetism, doesn't mean it lacks inner world such as a candidate for soul should. I can also describe the motion of children in a merry go round using equations of angular momentums and centrifugal forces. I can also describe some people singing and dancing using the maths of harmonics and Fourier analysis! The point is that it is just a piece of cake to describe how a freewilling entity has a human can behave as though just mechanical. He just choose so! But the vice-versa, explaining where freewill comes from beginning from pure mechanics is a coffee time if not an impossibility!
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