You are a master of the Zen tradition, with a deep knowledge of other schools of Buddhism as well, yet during this entire program of teachings you have made only one tangential reference to Zen.
Instead, you have taught exclusively on the basic tenets of Buddhism, such as mindfulness practice and the four noble truths. Why have you chosen this approach?
There is original Buddhism, the Buddhism of the Buddha, and the many schools of Buddhism that were developed by later generations. But whether it is original Buddhism, or Zen, or Tendai, or Vajrayana, it is still the teaching of the Buddha.
The work of the Buddha is continued by his disciples-his wisdom and his teachings continued after he passed into nirvana. We recognize the Buddha in the generations of teachers and students who have followed.
What I’ve been doing is presenting the teachings of original Buddhism in a Mahayana spirit. Mahayana Buddhism has a very open view, not restricted, and it is wonderful to study original Buddhism with that kind of spirit.
When you use Mahayana eyes in order to inquire into original Buddhism, you can discover so many things, much deeper things. You realize that all the great teachings of Mahayana can be found in the original teaching. The great ideas of Mahayana are already there. The seeds are already there in original Buddhism.
So when we use the term original Buddhism, that doesn’t mean that we put away the other, later traditions. We do want to connect the later traditions to their roots.
Then original Buddhism can become the common ground, the common denominator, of every Buddhist. That is why offering the teachings of original Buddhism in the spirit of Mahayana Buddhism is what we have tried to do.
Buddhism in its original form was simple-simple but deep. Many scholars have made Buddhism too complicated, into a kind of metaphysics or philosophy. Some students of Buddhism spend a lot of time learning these systems of thought and do not have the time to practice.
It is like Master Linji [Japanese: Rinzai], who learned a lot of Buddhism but found that learning Buddhism was not enough. So he abandoned the learning and began to practice.
Since Buddhism is still in its infancy in the West, in its beginning phase, do you feel the teachings of original Buddhism are perhaps more appropriate right now than the teachings that developed later?
It’s not that one particular teaching is more appropriate to our time. What’s important is the way we understand it, which depends on our approach.
If you are a scholar and you work only with your intellect, you might interpret a teaching in one way. But if you are a real practitioner, your practice will help you to discover the depth of the teaching and to touch the insight brought about by the practice.
Then you will have another, completely different way of presenting the same teaching. So the question is not the teaching itself, but whether the way you experience and present the teaching is appropriate.
Still, it is amazing to notice that the very first dharma talk given by the Buddha is still relevant to our time. After 2,500 years, the first dharma talk is still valid, still solid. In the first dharma talk, we find enough teachings to follow all our lives. This is something amazing.
In your teaching you devote more attention to the principles of sangha, of community, than perhaps any other Buddhist teacher. Why is that so important to you?
Building brotherhood and sisterhood is the foundation of the sangha, and if the sangha is happy, then it can be a refuge for so many people.
We began to build our community a long time ago, several decades ago, and it has now grown into a mature, solid sangha. There are many people who have been practicing for a long time, and when there is a retreat like this you can feel the energy of the sangha.
There is a story in the sutras about King Presenajit of Shravasti, who met the Buddha for the last time when they were both eighty years old. The king said something like, “Dear Buddha, every time I see the sangha, I see you more clearly.”
It is very meaningful that the Buddha can be seen through the sangha. The sangha is the work, the masterpiece of the Buddha. The Buddha is an artist and the sangha is his artwork.
So what the king said is very meaningful: “Dear Buddha, dear teacher, every time I get in touch with your sangha, I see you more clearly and I appreciate you more and more.”
The Buddha is still alive today in the sangha. When you see the monks and the lay people practicing, you see the presence of the Buddha.
You recently called on members of your own sangha, as well as all who support the principles of peace and nonviolence, to support President Obama. Why did you take that step?
You know that I met Martin Luther King Jr. in the year 1966. We talked about sangha and his concept of the beloved community.
We talked about human rights, peace, nonviolence, and so on. What we were doing was very similar-building community, blending the seeds of wisdom, compassion, and nonviolence.
This statement is a continuation of that work. We have been planting those seeds, and when Obama manifested, we could see that Obama was capable of using loving speech, of understanding nondiscrimination.
But Obama is also vulnerable-he cannot continue to be himself if he is not supported by a strong community, by all those who believe in these principles.
Maybe in the future his military advisers and economic advisers will drive him in another direction. That is why we call for the sangha to support Obama, so that he can be himself and continue to practice the things that he has shown he can do, like using loving speech and helping to remove wrong perceptions, within America and in the Arab world.
There have been so many signs proving that Obama has an intention, an aspiration, to realize peace, brotherhood, non-discrimination, and so on.
Supporting Obama is not about supporting a political party, but supporting a way of doing politics that is not seen very much in the world of politicians. Obama represents a new kind of awareness, a new kind of aspiration, a new kind of action.
That’s beautiful, but how to maintain it alive? There are so many elements that are trying to pull Obama in another direction. That is why we have to mobilize the community to help protect Obama, so that Obama can remain Obama for a longer time. That is not supporting a political party. It is supporting a vision, an aspiration.
You gave a talk in New York entitled “Building a Peaceful and Compassionate Society.” What is our path to a sane and compassionate society? Your five mindfulness trainings put traditional Buddhist vows in a modern social context. Are they a guide?
In general, the insight of inter-being will help remove discrimination, fear, and the dualistic way of thinking.
We inter-are-even suffering and happiness inter-are-and that is why the insight of inter-being is the foundation of any kind of action that can bring peace and brotherhood, and help remove violence and despair.
That insight is present in every great spiritual tradition. We need only to go home to our own tradition, and try to reveal that, to revive that.
The five mindfulness trainings are a very concrete practice of love. In our tradition, the Buddhist tradition, we learn how to apply the trainings in our daily life.
They are for action, not for speculation. You don’t just sign a petition; you make it into your life, your path. Then you are happy because you know that you have a path of understanding and love.
Since you have a path of understanding and love, there’s no reason why you have to be afraid of your future anymore.
Then you can share your path, your way of cultivating understanding and love, with people in other traditions. They don’t have to become Buddhists; they can go back to their own tradition and recognize the equivalent of the five trainings there.
Our purpose is not to convert people to Buddhism. Our purpose is to live Buddhism as a path of understanding and love.
You can continue to be a Jew, a Christian, or a Muslim, and you can do exactly the same thing as we do in the tradition of Buddhism.
We use the Buddhist language and practice, you use the Muslim language and practice, but we arrive at the same result. That is why it can be called a global spirituality or global ethic.
Wouldn’t it be marvelous if great spiritual leaders from different traditions could get together and discuss what would be a common global ethic?
Maybe they don’t need to come together in one place. They could just stay where they are and practice the same understanding and love.
Thank you very much, Thay. It’s very kind of you to give us this time. It’s been an honor for me personally, and I know it will be of great benefit to our readers.
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